looking to get into this sport, need to find a beginners kite, anyone got anything good to learn on for sale or have any advice as to what to look for.

thanks

would this be a decent starter:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEST-3M-Snowkiting- ... dZViewItem


or would I be better off with something more advanced? maybe a 5m or 6m??

a non-sheetable kite (like a 2 line or trainer) is not the way to learn IMO.... something sheetable where you can learn to use your bodyweight and get used to flying on a bar is more beneficial.

any suggestions on specific kites?, looking to spend ~$300 or less. I weight about 180 lbs and will be on skis, if that makes a difference.

also wondering if there are any teaching videos available

I agree with Powerzone. I understand the concept of a trainer kite, but it seems unnecessary. I got the basic flight operation down in about 45 minutes with a (friend's) 4-line depower 6m Ozone Access, and was able to snowboard for an hour with it after that initial flight without too much trouble (and I'm a 180 pound old school skier who had never boarded). After 3 times out on the same kite, I bought a 10m Ozone Frenzy and except for an early experience in high gusty winds I've had good luck with it (on skis).

Ideally, I'd recommend a newbie borrow a friend's smaller kite for the first time or two, and then decide what to do from there. If you have no kiting friends, I think going for a 4-line 4 or 6m kite, maybe a used one to keep the cost down, makes sense. Once you get comfortable, then either sell it and go a bit bigger for more speed and/or boosting and/or kiting in slower winds, or keep the small one for higher winds and get a bigger one too.

This site's administrator, Eric Byers, had some good quality but cheaper 4-line kites for sale in December. He's busy supporting the Cross the Moon expedition in central North Dakota right now, but I expect he'll be back on the site after Jan. 15 and may be able to help you find a cheaper but workable first kite.

Have fun.

thanks for the help guys, I think I'll skip the trainer kite, I'm a good athlete and experienced skier and think I'll 'outgrow' a trainer way too quick and waste money. Now I just gotta figure out a good 'starter' kite.

Don't know anyone that's ever done this, so borrowing a kite isn't really an option.

BTW- This might be a stupid question, but do you need a harness to start with?, or are they more for int.-advanced riders at higher speeds and big lifts.

If you're going with a depower foil, you're going to need a harness, that's the way you do the depowering!

here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ozone-Access-4-mete ... dZViewItem
is an example of a good kite like you're going to want to start with. I'm 220 (and getting fatter :/), and have the same kite in a different color scheme. I paid 400 for mine, used, but in very good shape. I was riding landboard last sunday on a runway nearby, and cranking in 20mph. It's also a good starter kite because the Access is designed to NOT lift you, while the Frenzy is designed to pick you up easily. You can still jump with the Access, according to reviews I've read, but that's something you'll want to wait until you've got more experience to start experiementing with.

Also, FWIW, I've got a 12m Frenzy, and it frankly scares me a little on the landboard. It's also a pain in the A$$ to fly in lighter winds, because if you dont do it just right, the wingtips fold in, and the thing tumbles to the ground in a heap. You will save yourself a lot of frustration if you learn on a little one, and learn to keep it from folding in light winds.

I went the route of buying the 3m, 2line trainer foil, and learned to fly that thing. Now it never leaves its bag. There is no way to relaunch the trainer if it lands leading edge down, and it offers me nothing over the Access.

The Access is small and light enough to not really get into serious trouble with, but if you do, it's got 2 safety releases (which you'll know by rote how to use if you go to a bigger Ozone kite, most likely a frenzy or an instinct). It packs up and sets up quickly, does the reverse-relaunch thing, very easily I might add, and it's a good high-wind kite to hang onto and use when you have a bigger kite for slower winds.

If you have any questions about the Access, ask, I'll gladly answer them honestly. I have nothing to do with Ozone, just like 'em, that's all.

guess I'm in the gathering info to make an informed decision before I drop 400 or 500 bucks stage. Looked into the depower kites a bit, not sure if I need one or not. We get a lot of wind up here, and its highly variably anywhere from 10-40 mph.

I'm gonna do some more research which will probably just lead to more questions this weekend.

what are the pros/cons of depower kites?, from the little I read so far, the only con is the price, and I guess the necessity of a harness with them.

You will need a harness for the depower kite, and I agree that's the way to go. To keep down the cost you can get a decent rock climbing harness for $45 or so and a locking carabiner to attach the kite for $12-15. That's much less than a kiting harness, and frankly, more comfortable in the sense that the kite's pull is distributed between the waist and leg loops. A side benefit is the ability to use it to belay a friend on rock and to rappel.

There are maybe two downsides I see with the rock harness. One is that the waist band on most is not as wide or as padded as kite harnesses, so it can be uncomfortable for extended kite sessions.

The other is that if you start with the rock harness, which focuses the kite's pull right below the belly button (your natural center of gravity), it feels strange to use a kiting harness where the pull is higher. I learned to snowkite last year with my rock harness but this year bought the new Mystic Blazer snowkite harness. I'm still trying to learn how to use it and break it in, but for me the most disconcerting thing about it is that the pull is 3 or 4 inches higher than my rock harness. I have several buddies that kite only with rock harnesses, and they do well.

Ok, it's important to distinguish between "sheetable" and "depower".

If a kite is sheetable, some lines from the kite wll be connected to the chicken loop, which you attach to your harness, and the others (usually only 2) will be connected to the bar. You use the bar like steering a bike to steer a kite (think turn the handlebars, like a bike, as opposed to turn the wheel like a car, you steer a kite like a bike). Pulling in on the bar gives you full power, pushing out on it will reduce the power of the kite (but allow it to climb easier). So you've got steering, which is analogous to a bike, and then sheeting(power), which I guess is analogous to a reversed throttle, pull it in to get more power, push it out to get less. You need the harness because both your hands are on the bar, steering the kite, but you need to be able to sheet the kite in and out.

Depower, on the other hand, is the ability to "lock" the kite in a partially sheeted state. So when you depower the kite, you effectively change the length of some of the lines, which changes the angle of attack of the kite, which makes it pull like a smaller kite. This allows you to use fewer kites for a wider wind range. The Frenzy analogy I hear is that a depowered 10m pulls like an 8m.

The Ebay ad for the Access is a little off regarding the "stability" part of the access. If you let go of the bar, the kite goes limp(not pulling you around as hard), but will then turn and head toward the ground. The stability that ozone is talking about is that it wont just yank you airborne, it's not designed for that, the Frenzy is.

Depower foils are usually also easy to relaunch, if you get a 2 line foil, you'll spend a fair bit of time, in the beginning anyway, walking to it, setting it cells-up, and then relaunching it.

If money's an issue, and safety not so much, look into the HQ Montana kite, apparently the HQ Montana is analogous to the Frenzy (happy to lift you, not necessarily good for a first timer/first kite), but also much cheaper than Ozone, because it doesen't have the hefty name. It is supposed to have depower, and is definitely sheetable.

In the end it's up to you, I'd just recommend a 4 line, as that's what you'll end up getting if you get hooked on this sport. You'll want a harness, climbing or kiting (your arms get TIRED without one) regardless of whether you buy a depower or not. No harness is fine for learning on a trainer kite, as most dont come with a hook in loop anyway, but when you start riding you'll need one.

I know with the '06 and earlier Access, you have to set the knots on the leading lines to depower the kite, on the 07 Access, and the 06(and possibly earlier) and 07 Frenzy, there's a camcleat you use to set the depower.

Thanks guys, that info helps a lot, I'm gonna try and figure out what I want soon, and then figure out how to go about getting one. Really looking forward to this.

found this online and thought it might be a good way to go, any thoughts?

http://www.kitesnowboarder.com/index.ph ... p&Itemid=1

I believe that's neither a sheetable, nor depowerable foil. I think you might have difficulty relaunching it also (I watched someone fight with a peter lynn trying to launch/relaunch it where I ride landboard). It's up to you in the end. My suggestion is still to lean toward a small (no bigger than 4m) ozone, either frenzy or access, but that's my $0.02, like I said, in the end, it's up to you

found a montana 9.5 m for a decent price, I'm thinking this is too much kite to learn on, but was wondering what you guys think?

That is a big kite, esp. for you. I would not buy that as a first kite, you need a smaller kite to start with.