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 Race Snowboard 
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:10 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Post Race Snowboard
Any one know where I could find a race snowboard that is a twin tip? Like a 195-215cm.


Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:49 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:31 am
Posts: 32
Location: North Conway N.H.
Post Re: Race Snowboard
I've never heard of a twin carve board.

Twin tips slow the hell out of skis and snowboards. It would be useless to build a twin race board I would guess.


Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:26 am
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:10 pm
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Location: Eastern Nebraska
Post Re: Race Snowboard
Feyd,

Do you kitesnowboard? In my experience (maybe not enough), going toeside in a race would be WAY less efficient than having a twin and staying heelside on another tack. Even on a twin longboard skateboard, I cannot point as high or go as fast on toeside.

I would not necessarily be looking for a "Carve board" but maybe sometning with a large sidecut radius on the heelside and less on the toeside.


Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:54 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:31 am
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Location: North Conway N.H.
Post Re: Race Snowboard
Nah, I'm on skis for speed.

I asked my carveboard friends about it all they all said the same thing. "Never seen a twin race board." Followed by "What the hell would you want one?" I explained that it was for kiting.

All the race boards they ride are around 10-12m carve radius. I know one kiter that rides a race board and your right it does seem a bit slower on a kite because He can't get the same leverage. He doesn't get toe drag because of his angles. On the hill the angles of the bindings seem to make both toeside and heelside equally fast. Probably because you're driving the edge and not countering the kites pull.

Are you running hardplates and boots with lifters?

I remember a few companies WAAAAAY back in the day were messing with asym boards but I can't even remotely remember who. I think K2 had one but not sure. We're talking 20yrs ago.

Sorry I couldn't help you out. Good luck!


Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:07 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:10 pm
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Location: Eastern Nebraska
Post Re: Race Snowboard
Skis are definitely the fast option and I have tried them, but I really only use them with my Kitewing mostly because a snowboard feels better to me.

As far as a set up when kite snowboarding, I am using Flows w/ a cheap wide twin at 164cm and a sidecut radius of 8.3.

Why do I think there is a need for a twin kite raceboard? Mostly because of the difference in the physics between gravity driven vs kite driven snowboarding. With out going into more detail than I am qualified to explain, it is as simple as grav'ers riding on their front foot and kiters riding their back foot. Front foot weighted riding places the center of gravity near the front foot. So when you ride an "All Mountain" or Alpine board that has a nose longer than the tail, you wind up centering your weight over the center of area of the board. Ride the same board with a kite, and you will be placing most of your weight on 20% of the back of the board.

So given the physics, a kiter should ride an "All Mountain" or Alpine board backwards so the tail is going first. But since Alpine boards have a square tail, this may not be a good idea. Another problem is the fact that we usually prefer to stay heel side for the most control.

Solution: Alpine twin tip marketed for kiters.

My opinion is that some company is going to be the first to come out with a affordable racing kitesnowboard and make a killing. The down side is that this could necessitate a 3rd class of snowkite racing: Skis, Stock Snowboard, and then Race Snowboard over a certain length.

Maybe it is a can of worms that should not be opened, but I have a feeling that somewhere, somehow, someone will do it and I want in on a kite raceboard. And yes, I would try it on the mountain at least once.


Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:23 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:31 am
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Location: North Conway N.H.
Post Re: Race Snowboard
I'm gonna have to try riding on a board.

I hear waht your sayin' tho. I just replaced and edge section on an alpine board for a friend that just happened to slide it backwards while kiting on boilerplate and peeled a 4" section from the tail cap forward.

Bent it bad enough that I had to remove it and put new edge in.

Snowkiters are all in the same boat gear wise. We're all using regular ski and snowboard gear in an enviroment that they were never intended for in harse conditions for literally hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles. Usually on rough ungroomed surface.

Rossignol supplies me with skis and so far I've tuned the life out of them before they've come apart. But they never made thier skis to handle what we've been doing to them.

Unfortunately the snowkiting would be such a small market the likelyhood of a major manufacturer making a ski for it would be unlikely. I know some small board companies have produced boards but still nothing like what you're looking for.

That being said, there is the possibility of making your own. Or at least altering and existing freecarve to suit your needs. Allt these things are held together by heat sensitive epoxies that can be loosend and repositioned. It's a tricky thing but with a little skill and patience you can through a kicktail on anything. Especially if it has a metal sheet in it and foam core. We we're making twin tips out of flat tails back in '89 this way.

It's also how we straighten bent skis and put rocker in non-rocker skis.

Just a thought. LET LOOSE THE WORMS!!!!


Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:26 am
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Race Snowboard
Try to find a Burton Supermodel 182 and use alpine/carving boots and bindings. You can set the stance where ever you like and adjust the heel angle of the boots. They are very easy to mount with the kite in the air. The long board floats nice in powder and holds an amazing edge.

Hope this helps.

Joe


Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:14 pm
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:54 am
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Location: Thunder Bay, ON, Cnd
Post Re: Race Snowboard
Matt the alpine twin is a useless design, if your not going to use it toes side, then you wont need the toe side edge on the board.
Such a board must be custom made.
Point being its just too small of a market at the time.

_________________
16M Bularoo, '10 Naish 9M Helix K2 Satellite 155 Wide, '10 Ride DH 156 Wide
Naish Haze XL, Homemade Customs

All ya gotta learn is how to ride the flow of the current!!


Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:21 pm
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Post Re: Race Snowboard
Hi, directional/bordercross boards are awesome for snowkiting too!

Look here:
http://www.vimeo.com/18349264
&
http://www.vimeo.com/17987386

regards from Poland!


Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:42 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:10 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Post Re: Race Snowboard
beakks,

Toe side is always used on a snowboard while kiting, at least to some degree depending on your skill. Rounding a mark is a perfect example of this. Maybe some one with more racing experience can give you the breakdown of efficiency in the rounding the mark situation, but I always turn toe side for an instant to set up my next direction when going back toward the way I came. I always try to do that so I do not go heelside sideslipping because of its inefficiency. It is all about keeping your speed up. So I do need a toeside edge.

Toeside backwards on a directional board works but is not something I would want to chance blowing in a race.

Everybody else is completely right on there not being enough interest for a manufacture to come out with a race board. I am just dreaming that 5150 or Morrow would see this kite market and make some affordable boards of the shape that would benefit snowkiters and maybe even spark a raceboard class. The way my "new last year" board looks from all of the crappy conditions I put it through, I really do not want a deck that is going to cost over $300 to use under a kite.

I love the flexibility of my cheap Head boots and Flow Flight 2 bindings. How does it feel to kite with hardboots?


Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:33 pm
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:54 am
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Location: Thunder Bay, ON, Cnd
Post Re: Race Snowboard
Sorry to push your buttons Matt. but I do know what I'm talking about. You just want something that isn't out there, make it yourself man!
You made it sound like you don't ride the board toe side very often, so the board could be asymmetrical in shape is all I'm getting at. Take a look at the fly radical from flysurfer and you will see what I mean; yes, its a water board but a similar (or opposite) concept could be applied to a snowboard. Depending on what you want out of the board.
I only make my own boards for the summer. Don't know if any snowboard company has really jump on the kiting craze for racing.
Secondly, the reality of making a board is that its going to cost you or the company roughly $200-$300 in materials alone for one board, not to mention a press to actually put it together, so I don't see a company like Morrow or 5150 gambling on such a radical shape, but only time will tell I guess.
And I ride Mid-stiff boots just fine, love the response. Granted toe-side don't feel all that nice when on ice, but I could care less about riding ice, the base on the board ain't made for it. Maybe your heel edge is just dull from riding all that ice.
Until someones comes up with a new product for the base of a board, nothing will change. They will wear out just as fast as the boards we ride today, unless a more durable product is introduced.

_________________
16M Bularoo, '10 Naish 9M Helix K2 Satellite 155 Wide, '10 Ride DH 156 Wide
Naish Haze XL, Homemade Customs

All ya gotta learn is how to ride the flow of the current!!


Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:48 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:10 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Post Re: Race Snowboard
No buttons pushed at all! I thank you for your honest response because all I am looking for is info. I am currently obsessed with this sport and it has really taken over my life. When the volcano goes off and we wind up with a year round winter, I will be the only one celebrating.

It is awesome that you build your own water boards. The extent of my snow mechanical expertise ends at tuning edges, waxing and repairing bases, resurrecting old straight skis and remounting/reworking the bindings. But yes, I have dreamed of having my own press.

What I really like about my 5150 and Morrow's is that they have held up to the abuse my 215lbs have put them through. The only reason I am about to flip one of my boards bindings is because of the looks of the base on heelside and the steel is getting a little thin from tuning. They are still structurally sound all around. I am just amazed at these cheap boards.


Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:37 am
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